Integrity, flexibility, and diverse funding: Iryna Baturevych’s insight on persevering for success
Iryna Baturevych (pictured above) is an essential figure in the Ukrainian publication industry that she’s developed her company alongside. She was working on strategy for Chytomo the day this picture was taken. (Photo by Taras Podolian)
Chytomo is a Ukrainian journalism and literary publication focusing on promoting Ukrainian literature and culture. We met with their co-founder, Iryna Baturevych, to discuss the founding of Chytomo, how they developed their trusted media organization, and the current status of the project.
What's the Idea: Thanks for meeting today.
Iryna Baturevych: Thank you so much for inviting me. It's a pleasure.
What's the Idea: What inspired you to start Chytomo?
Iryna: Chytomo was our student project. Me and Oksana Khmeliovska, my friend and my partner, were studying together at the Taras Shevchenko University in the institute of journalism, but our focus was the publishing industry. We combined the theoretical and practical, and journalism [and] the publishing industry, and came up with our diploma. The Chytomo website was our practical part.
It's hard to name an inspiration because back in 2009, the Ukrainian publishing market, the Ukrainian book market, was fully loaded with Russian literature, and sometimes it was not the best examples of this literature. We decided that we wanted to support Ukrainian publishers, those few, let's say, crazy people who wanted to develop and promote their own literature, who tried to build their business despite the whole situation that didn't make this profitable for them.
Back then, it was a great challenge. I think that nowadays, if these publishers were to make a business plan and do a market analysis of the situation, how to launch their business in this situation, maybe many of those who are now great entrepreneurs wouldn’t even consider the idea. These were not businessmen back then. Not entrepreneurs. They were just people who believed in what they were doing, believed in the idea, and they just wanted to discover these great pieces of literature that many Ukrainians didn't know.
And besides, we had this horrible situation where our literature classes in schools were really influenced by Soviet literature, by Soviet examples, by the Soviet educational system. And after finishing school, many students came up with the idea that Ukrainian literature is so boring. “It's all about suffering. It’s not sexy. It's not for reading. It's not entertaining. It's just not my thing.”
“The idea behind Chytomo was to support Ukrainian literature, to show the greatest examples of books as art, to be a support for Ukrainian publishers who were, back then, making just the first few steps towards the business.”
I think these two factors worked really well together in terms of promoting the idea of this “great imperial literature” from our northern neighbor that we are unlucky to be nearby. And, of course, the amount of funds that Russia spent on the promotion of their literature and on new publishing houses that were using Ukraine as the markets for sale. I think all of this—when your target audience is very small and it's mostly intellectuals or people who are really able to dig deeper than just the school program and understand the context where Ukrainian literature emerged, and to stand strong against all of this propaganda that we faced during that time—made it hard for Ukrainian literature to really compete.
So the idea behind Chytomo was to support Ukrainian literature, to show the greatest examples of books as art, and to be a support for Ukrainian publishers who were, back then, making just the first few steps towards the business. That also explains a lot about our media project. In other countries, in big markets, they always have mostly professional magazines that are analyzing trends, like The Bookseller for the UK, for example, or Publishers Weekly or Publishing Perspectives for the US, or Giornale della Libreria for the Italian market, and so on. These examples are very much about business, but we wanted to combine these two aspects, business and arts and culture.
There are lots of ways to develop this type of business, and it was a whole unknown for many Ukrainians back then. We're truly grateful for our partners at these types of organizations, like the British Council. It was a creative enterprise program where they invested a lot into the understanding of creative industries from the side of professionals and many other organizations and others who really put thought towards this idea. That helped us to create this unique combination of something between a professional magazine and an online media about culture. We've never had a printed edition.
We can see our idea worked well. We can see the trends we've been describing from Western Europe, for example, or from the US. Some events we've been reporting really made an impact on the Ukrainian publishing industry, on the understanding of culture, and now we can see that impact for Ukrainian publishers. Of course, it's not only our achievement. It's just a little piece of sand, a little drop in the ocean. But that idea worked.
But now we face these big challenges because we can see that the number of grants are decreasing. The value of journalism is also, let's say, decreased in people's minds. I'm not saying that about those who are media-literate, nor those who are following media and trying to support them, nor intellectuals, but in general we can see that people are not that interested in media outlets or in journalism. Mostly they’re following some bloggers, maybe, or just devote their time to scrolling their social networks without even following some particular bloggers.
And we see that we can't rely on the previous model anymore, which mostly was based on grants. Especially with the news from the US, with USAID (US Agency for International Development) stopped in its operations, and the amount of funds that never ended up being used by cultural organizations like ours. So it's a big hit. It's a big problem for us right now.
“Our first grant was a student grant that we got. It was so small that it was not enough to cover anything, not even back then. But we were so inspired by the fact that we were chosen and somebody recognized us as a potentially great project”
What's the Idea: It's amazing that you started this as a student project that has now turned into your professional life. Can you explain the steps that you took to start the business? What were those early days like?
Iryna: The first thing I must say is I just hate doing all of the tasks or homework or anything from the university for nothing, just for a grade or some kind of educational milestone. I want my ideas to be real and I think my partner also shares my feelings. So we've been thinking about everything that we are doing in terms of real life projects.
What we started back then was mostly a hobby project. We used our classmates, the students of the university, as volunteers, and we worked as volunteers too. It was a really fun time. Of course, we were learning through the process because there was nobody to ask about how this type of media could operate, could function. We've been learning from our mistakes.
Maybe the first problem we faced was that, with time, volunteers and students found other jobs and they wanted to build their career and to make some money, so we started losing these volunteers. We didn’t know how to pay these people. Both of us were writing articles, but it was definitely not enough, and in terms of our expertise, we also wanted to involve some people who were experts in some other fields. So we decided to look for grants. Our first grant was a student grant that we got. It was so small that it was not enough to cover anything, not even back then. But we were so inspired by the fact that we were chosen and somebody recognized us as a potentially great project that we started to look for more grants.
Oksana Khmeliovska (left) and Ira Baturevych (right) co-founded Chytomo as a university project that has now become the core of their professional lives.
We attended lots of courses. Our university education was not enough. We were constantly looking for new connections, new possibilities for our project, and I think it helped a lot. I already mentioned this creative enterprise program that I highly recommend to those who are eligible for this program and to those who can take advantage of it. It gave us the understanding of how to move through this very complicated situation in the Ukrainian market when your readers are not ready to pay for the content.
Now, happily, the situation is changing. It's a great experience for us because we never imagined that we could be supported by our audience. And now, I must say that among nine people, we have one person who is fully covered by our supporters from Patreon, for example. We don't have lots of money there, but we have $700 monthly, so it's already something. But back then, it was impossible.
First of all, there were no platforms. Crowdfunding maybe was not that popular, and these types of platforms, like Buy Me a Coffee or Patreon, were also maybe not so popular, or we just didn't know about them.
It was not an easy way for us because, firstly, we found just one source of funding. Then we realized it's important to have something else, so we started to develop the idea that maybe some institutions might support us.
There are lots of ways to develop this type of business, and it was a whole unknown for many Ukrainians back then. We're truly grateful for our partners at these types of organizations, like the British Council. It was a creative enterprise program where they invested a lot into the understanding of creative industries from the side of professionals and many other organizations and others who really put thought towards this idea. That helped us to create this unique combination of something between a professional magazine and an online media about culture. We've never had a printed edition.
We can see our idea worked well. We can see the trends we've been describing from Western Europe, for example, or from the US. Some events we've been reporting really made an impact on the Ukrainian publishing industry, on the understanding of culture, and now we can see that impact for Ukrainian publishers. Of course, it's not only our achievement. It's just a little piece of sand, a little drop in the ocean. But that idea worked.
But now we face these big challenges because we can see that the number of grants are decreasing. The value of journalism is also, let's say, decreased in people's minds. I'm not saying that about those who are media-literate, nor those who are following media and trying to support them, nor intellectuals, but in general we can see that people are not that interested in media outlets or in journalism. Mostly they’re following some bloggers, maybe, or just devote their time to scrolling their social networks without even following some particular bloggers.
And we see that we can't rely on the previous model anymore, which mostly was based on grants. Especially with the news from the US, with USAID (US Agency for International Development) stopped in its operations, and the amount of funds that never ended up being used by cultural organizations like ours. So it's a big hit. It's a big problem for us right now.
Once again, there were no governmental programs to support either culture or media. No grants at all. Now, again, the situation has changed. During the time when Poroshenko was president, he gave it a go, so now we have the Ukrainian Cultural Foundation, which supports Ukrainian arts, media projects, and creative industries.
Back then, we asked different cultural institutions of other countries like the Goethe Institute or the British Council. We made some projects together and it was also a great inspiration. We realized we can add a second type of funding here if we can work with institutions and make projects for them, to help them with their programs.
And then Ukrainian publishers started to have their separate departments of marketing, PR, and so on. Some still were not able to do that because they didn't have the investments and the type of big money needed to create these types of departments. We realized, here is an opportunity for us because maybe we can support their projects. Not as the PR people, but at least as a media project. So we started to have this commercial partnership with publishers.
But this way was also not easy for us because we've never supported projects we don't like. We've never supported the publishers who've been promoting only Russian literature in Ukraine. This narrowed our field so much. It narrowed the number of partners to maybe 10 publishing houses.
“I wish one day I won’t need to think about any other scenarios. But I think life brings us these lessons that nothing is stable.”
I've been thinking recently about if we would have started the website in Russian, if we promoted Russian literature, and so on. Then possibly we would be very successful in terms of business. But it was something we were fighting against, and it wasn't our way, so we didn't do that. It was complicated. And then these platforms popped up, like Patreon, or LiqPay in Ukraine, that allowed you to integrate things on your website where you can put this donate button, and it started to work. We saw the first person who supported us for $1. It is such a joy to see that people are not just putting a little “like” on our social networks, that they are ready to like us with their money. It was just an amazing feeling. So it brought us firstly inspiration, and after, it really supported us financially.
So our main take away from this situation was, first of all, never rely on one source of funding. Now I think many people realize it's not the right way to go, because many media outlets were dependent on only one source of grant funding, like USAID, or even 80% on one grant. For me, that's just crazy. Maybe because we've never had this one big grant that can cover two, three years in advance. Maybe if we would have had this opportunity, of course, we would have taken it because it makes your life easier when you have one year covered. But the problem with this approach is that one day it may be over and what are you going to do?
Just recently, we have been doing these interviews with different people, asking them “What is your approach in business? How would you act? Can you walk in our shoes and give advice?” And it's very interesting because now I see that in Western companies—I'm not speaking about big businesses. I'm speaking about those who are running creative businesses, for instance, here in Quebec where I'm located right now with my son—I'm asking them “Hey, what is your main funding? How do you run your organization?” And even the companies that are really giving some services that you can sell, I'm asking them “What's your model?” and many of them are saying, “We just have this one governmental grant for running these programs.” And I asked, “We are entering times of turbulence. What are you going to do if it were over?” And they're saying, “Then we are fucked.”
For me, it sounds really crazy that even facing this reality in 2025, many people are just still in this warm bath of comfort. It's great. I wish one day I won’t need to think about any other scenarios. But I think life brings us these lessons that nothing is stable. Everything may change and you should be ready for not only plan A and plan B, but maybe C and D and many other plans. So if I could give only one piece of advice, it would be to look for many different sources of funding, and never rely on just one. You should diversify. You should be flexible. That's the main thing in today's world.
What's the Idea: The world is changing so much around us, and if governments and consumers aren't going to support the media, it puts media organizations into a difficult spot. It’s amazing that you've been able to develop and work with these sources and be resourceful and be prepared.
Iryna: Thank you for that word, resourceful. I'm at the limit of my resourcefulness.
Even while living in Canada, Iryna remains devoted to supporting Ukrainian literature. (picture by Olha Zakrevska)
What's the Idea: This need to promote Ukrainian literature against the ocean of Russian content reminds me of Canadian literature. There’s the same idea that “Canadian literature is boring” and there’s a strange bias against it, so I can empathize with your goal to promote Ukrainian literature and prove how vibrant it really is.
Iryna: Yeah, you're totally right. And don't get me wrong, I'm really open about discovering other literature from other cultures. I think that the treasure of Canada is that this is a place where so many cultures meet together and everyone can contribute because this country is about a multicultural approach. And for me, it's a great, great treasure, and many interesting things can emerge here.
The culture, the literature, I think, is giving the answers because it shows you so much. You can learn about so many experiences. You can live so many lives of the people who've been living in this country and through this history and through these events. I think it's just amazing.
But of course you can see this when you are in the same position. For example, with language. In Ukraine, many people are speaking Russian. Not maybe now, but before. In the early days of the collapse of the Soviet Union, everybody was supposed to speak Russian, and if you wanted to have a good education or if you wanted to have a great job, you should speak Russian. And I remember when, as a student of the publishing department of the institute of journalism with a primary focus on the Ukrainian language, I couldn't find a job with Ukrainian language. I mean not only as an editor, but generally speaking.
I think we are always in danger when we are in the same language zone of other countries. Because you are in the same language zone, people maybe won't sell the license or rights to your country, like it was with Ukraine. Why were Ukrainians not able to read the world's bestsellers in Ukrainian? Because the situation was the following. For example, UK publishers or US publishers produce a bestseller, and then the Russian publisher says, “I want to buy rights exclusively for Russian language, both for Russia and Ukraine, and all of the post-Soviet countries.” They're saying, “Yeah, sure.” And sometimes, they were even selling the rights for the Ukrainian language just in case, because for Russia, the influence was not limited by the physical border of Russia. It went to the language zones where the Russian language was dominant.
So Ukrainian publishers were saying, "Hey, even if we would go and buy the rights for this or that bestseller, Russians will bring it to our market in Russian and it will break our sales. It will just destroy us. It will absolutely not be profitable for us because we will pay big money for the license, we will spend so much time translating, and then Russians will bring it first in Russian, and they will take our market with this book.” So it was really unfair competition. I'm also speaking about business ethics, when publishers were willing to sell these rights to Russians, not to Ukrainians, because “Why should I split the rights if I can make more money with just selling to one ‘reliable’ partner I've been working with for ages?”
Then the situation changed rapidly. I would say starting from 2013, 2014, when unfortunately the Russian-Ukrainian war started, many publishers realized that we needed to fight for our motherland in terms of not only the borders, but also the minds of people. Publishers and creative people are the ones who are able to create this language and copyright zone. And here is a very important difference, because we are not speaking about propaganda here. We are speaking about grassroot initiatives that were not guided by the government. We still don't have any cultural strategy in Ukraine. And back then, none. Zero. The government didn't influence what publishers created. It was something that cultural people decided to do. Ukrainians writers decided to write. Translators decided to translate. So it was a very important moment in our history.
With our presence at the major professional events where people were selling licenses, like the Frankfurt Book Fair or the London Book Fair or the Bologna Book Fair, etc., publishers from other countries started to see that Ukrainian publishers were actually there. They were active, they were professional, and they were able to present beautiful books with beautiful illustrations or really nice translations. And of course, we started to collaborate. We started to say, "Hey, Ukraine is a separate copyright zone. Please work with us.” It made a great change for everything. World bestsellers are now published in Ukraine with a one month delay. Sometimes we buy the rights before the book is published and Ukrainian publishers are able to produce the book almost the same day as the world release. We are facing big changes, and even now we can see that Ukrainian publishers and creative people are making big steps forward, even despite the war, the constant shellings, the bombings, and the air raids. I'm proud that they keep going. This is something very, very important.
“I also realized now we are really a voice for free culture. We are not just the voice for Ukraine. We are the voice of a culture that is fighting to survive.”
What's the Idea: Am I right to think that you're part of that unique generation that grew up under the Soviet Union, and then your formative years were spent growing up post-Soviet Union, and you had to build the new culture?
Iryna: Yeah, absolutely. I went to school in 1995 when it was only the fourth year of independence. I was lucky enough to have great teachers and my school was fully Ukrainian. I think people were so willing to have this independence and they were really ready to change the system, but unfortunately, we lacked experience.
I feel like my generation moved through very complicated times, being children in the horrible 1990s, where people didn't know anything about freedom, about democracy, when many family members and even generations were just killed by repressions by the Soviet system, when they had no entrepreneurs in their families to show them how to make business, when we needed to learn how to live independently from scratch.
I think it was a very complicated period for our parents, but we learned that we are free, we are independent, and that everything is possible. You just need to find out the way. I think it's a priceless skill, growing up and understanding that you are the one who is building the rules, creating the systems, and you are the one who is responsible for your life. I think that's why these grassroot initiatives in Ukraine were so popular and are still very popular. They are still fighting against these Soviet things in people's minds
This war is also about not wanting to go back to the Soviet Union. We are not going to be assimilated. We know who we are. We know what our values are, and this is the war for your identity. Unfortunately, it's bloody, and so many cities are destroyed. So many monuments, museums, galleries, libraries, and lives are destroyed. But yeah, that’s what this war is about, and that's why I feel we can't stop.
It also gives you the responsibility to continue doing what you are doing and, for me personally as a Chytomo co-founder, maybe it's the worst type of decision, in terms of business, to come to Canada and to continue working for Ukraine. People are coming from all over the world to make money, to make their lives better, to look for comfort, and to make reasonable decisions about their financial future.
But what I realized in Canada is that I just want my media company to grow. I want to scale it to an international project. And I also realized now we are really a voice for free culture. We are not just the voice for Ukraine. We are the voice of a culture that is fighting to survive. And I see that so many cultures are going through this.
Maybe not in the same way that Ukraine is going through this, but we can see very similar scenarios with Georgia as a country. They name their country Sakartvelo, and what is happening there? It's, I believe, day 167 [at the time of the interview] of ongoing protest. The Georgian publishers, Georgian translators, Georgian writers, artists, and creative community are there, and I know they are not only not working, they are finding this opportunity instead of, I don't know, spending time with their families, enjoying their life, or going on vacations, they're going to the protests to protect their culture, to say “We are independent. We don't want to be under the Russian puppet government because we know how it ends.” The scenario is absolutely the same as it was in Ukraine and how it was in Belarus.
But when we see the Belarussian scenario, we see what could happen to Ukraine. Unfortunately, what happened in 2020, 2021 in Minsk and many other Belarusian cities with these protests that didn't push to the end… They didn't have an effect unfortunately, and they lost the country. It's crazy, but it's of course like I explained, just a few things about very similar scenarios and technologies that one empire employed with other countries. I'm very concerned about what is happening in Europe with countries like Slovakia, for example, Hungary, Poland, or those countries that are first starting to introduce these far-right traditional views.
They started to introduce laws against human rights, and this is the first sign. We see the same laws that are implemented, for example, against LGBTQ+, against women rights, against media. This is something that should be an alert. You need to react to that. You shouldn't be silent if you want to keep your country, because it always starts like that.
We can remember the first protests against the new rule of the radical Christians from Margaret Atwood’s The Handmaid's Tale, and it's crazy how real it could be. It's just crazy, and we see that the countries which, in our minds, were a symbol of freedom, like the US, and the people aren’t doing anything about their government, about the rules they don't like, the rules that they are not supporting, and I can't believe that there is nothing to be done about that. It's the responsibility of people, and if you are a nation of free people whose values are based on democracy, I think you should take action and do something.
Unfortunately, this is the scenario that I see all over the world. I think that culture in this situation can be a very important platform. It can give a voice to those who are not politicians, who can see this situation from different points of view. And the voices of artists, intellectuals, I think they can have more trust nowadays. I can't say I don't believe in soft power. I believe, but there is a time for soft power in culture that may change things. And sometimes, if you are too late with this… In Ukraine, we didn't have so much time to create this cultural field that will unite all of the people, and we ended up united by a common enemy. But I think we could maybe avoid that if we would be more protective towards our values, our culture. So that's my idea. I really want people to listen to the voices of those who are speaking the truth. That's it. And this is the task of journalism.
What's the Idea: How has your work with Chytomo changed over the years, and what have you had to do to change and to build the scope?
Iryna: Firstly, when we diversified our sources of funding, we relied on the growth of the Ukrainian publishing business. We started to rely a little bit more on commercial partnerships with those who we believed in. But when the war started, naturally all of the promotional budgets of the publishing houses just disappeared. So about 20%, 25% of commercial funding, almost a quarter of what we had, went to zero and we couldn't rely on it anymore. Now that the publishers are a little bit more stable, if we can say so—it's not completely true compared to what stability means in Europe or in Canada or in the US—they are managing so we have some of them back, but still, it's not the way to go.
Our initial thought was we should stop being a professional media because it's very expensive to make these articles that we are spending weeks on. You are exploring the trends, you're trying to get some marketing data. You are spending time and you are not paid for that. It just doesn't make sense.
But when we listened to our experts and they said “If you are working for the publishing industry, why don't you ask the publishers to support you just because you are doing important things? Maybe they can't take advantage in terms of sales in the short term, but they are benefiting from it in the long-term perspective, and it's impossible for you, so you should tell the publishers about your problem.”
Iryna introduces the Chytomo team, with whom they launched The Chytomo Award in 2023 – Oleksandr Mymruk, Oksana Khmelyovska, Oksana Gadzhiy, Mariia Horbach, Olesia Boyko, Daryna Holovan, and Yulia Lesechko. (picture by Dmytro Larin)
It could be true in a world where publishers are making money. It's a complicated business, even in wealthy countries, but if you are in the time of war, and your market is not that stable even without the war, it's challenging. So, Ukrainian publishers unfortunately can't support us to make us function without any other support.
But at the same time, we decided okay, it could be another source of our funding. So we started to reach out to the Ukrainian publishers and say, "Hey, if we are important, why don't you just subscribe to our Patreon? Why don't you be our member?” And it's working. Now we have really nice publishers who don't want us to die. Of course it won't cover all of our expenses, but it gives us inspiration, and it will cover part of our expenses, I hope. So, this is one way.
I believe we will come up with a new model. We will communicate better with our readers and we will produce more great articles on Chytomo and on the English version of Chytomo. Maybe we will open up other versions of Chytomo.
But if any of your readers are feeling that they want to team up with us, we are super open. If you have any expert in crowdfunding or are a person who is ready to help in contributing with ideas or helping us to rebuild our model, we would be super happy. I hope this subject matters for many more people than just for Ukrainians because we all need to think about our culture and the values it represents.
What's the Idea: I think the lessons learned can be applied to Canadians and Canadian media, so I hope others are following you as inspiration. You referred earlier to the decision to start publishing in English. You were an entirely Ukrainian publication, and then a few years ago you started publishing in English, right?
Iryna: We wanted to have an English version of our website back in 2018, 2019, and we'd been looking for this opportunity, but we thought we needed some funding for this, we can't just start the idea and then just do nothing because it's not a sustainable thing to do.
So we'd been waiting for the opportunity and then the war started. Then, there were completely no opportunities to do that. It was the worst moment to start something new, but we opened this English version. The full scale invasion started in 2022 at the end of February, and already in March, we had our first English article and English language website.
And it was actually crazy because people are saying that Ukraine exists not because of, but despite of, and I think the same is [true] about Chytomo and our new projects. We launched so many things not thanks to and not because of, but despite the war, COVID-19, horrible financial conditions, lack of people, and the labour crisis.
What's the Idea: I'm personally grateful to be reading Chytomo and to get the opportunity to learn about Ukrainian literature and contribute in some small way.
Iryna: Thank you for your attention and your support. It's very valuable for us.
Please support Chytomo by reading their work in Ukrainian or English, by donating, and by following them on social media and spreading the word about their work.
The interview was recorded using Google Zoom in May 2025.
Written by Matthew Long
Additional copy editing by APT Editing